>> Dr. Lanham:
Well, good morning. 

It's Monday already and we've had an exciting weekend here on campus, and we are ready to continue with the Symposium on Ancient Greece. 

And we are happy that you are all here. 

We are hoping that you will join us. 

We have two more sessions immediately following this one today. 

There is one tomorrow, and then we have the finale activities on Wednesday, which there are two programs in the day, and then on Wednesday evening at 6:00 in the North Gym of McAfee, we hope you will join us for the closing activities, which will include lots of music and dance and presentation. 

So welcome and I will ask Dr. Wahby to introduce our speakers today. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Thank you.  

Good morning. 

It is a lovely day, although we don’t see the sun, but we are thankful for that great day. 

This is the last week for the symposium and it has been a baby in our minds in our thoughts and dreams, and now it is approaching its end.  

People are asking already about next years, symposium, what will be the topic, so I am sure it will be great, and to the best of my knowledge, Eastern Illinois University is the only university doing such a thing? 

The Consul General of Greece said nobody approached her at all about such a thing as ancient Greece. 

So we are proud of what we are able to do, and I hope you enjoy this session.  

A lot of quotes about women you can go to Google and Google it about what people said about a woman you said and search for a woman behind everything. 

Search for a great woman behind a great man, they said women are those individuals who use their left hand to shake a cradle for a baby, and the right hand to shake the world. 

So in Egypt you have the saying about the [unclear dialogue] is under the feet of women, mothers, and lots of sayings you can say, and women in ancient Greece were not an exception, as we will see.

How would you introduce our two speakers today? 

Christina and Crystal, that is very difficult to introduce people who have lots of achievements in their careers, and have been a blessing to many students and others who get in touch with them.  

And I am aways speechless when I see people much like this to introduce them with many topics they discuss with their students and with a lively touch. 

So why don't you ask Christina to come, actually Christina, led us to Crystal.  

So we'll start with you?  

>> Dr. Crystal Lane:
Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction. 

I just want to say that this is my first semester at Eastern, and I love it here. 

I come from Virginia Tech and I am very proud of where I am from, but we certainly don't do anything like this there, and so I really appreciate this opportunity to be here and to delve into a topic that I probably wouldn't normally look into. 

And it has already been so fascinating and so today we are going to talk about ancient Greek women, their specific and varied roles in family and society. 

 And my role is to talk about more of the negative; more of I think what might be expected of women of that day, and then my colleague Christina is going to do this amazing presentation about how things weren’t necessarily as they seemed. 

And so, I have to say that when I started looking for information on this, I thought seriously, there's nothing good about women, and I'm so excited for you to see that part of the presentation. 

So, we are going to start with some quotes from a well-known philosopher at the time.  

Aristotle. 

So, he said, "The well-ordered wife will justly consider the behavior of her husband as the model of her own life. 

Neither splendor nor investments, nor preeminence of beauty, nor the amount of gold can contribute so much to the commendation of a woman as good management, in domestic affairs, and a noble and comely manner of life.  

Females are naturally libidinous, they incite the males to copulation, and they cry out during the act of coition', and I always giggle when I read that, I can't help it, 'woman is more compassionate than man, and has a greater propensity to tears." 

So this is I feel like a very good way of showing the theme of one of the ways women were viewed.  

So women in ancient Greece. 

So, in ancient Greece, women were either slaves, wives, or Hetaera. 

And Hetaera were single women, they served in an entertainment role, very similar to prostitution, and they weren't citizens of Athens. 

They weren't freeborn, and they usually started their lives as slaves.  

Because they weren't citizens, they were not allowed to marry, and interestingly the main role of wives though, I am not quite sure they would want to marry, because the main role of wives was to be invisible, and I mean that literally. 

Women were supposed to stay out of sight. 

They were literally supposed to stay within the house, and to remain within it. 

If something was needed from outside, a slave was sent to obtain it. 

And the main role of women, or wives was to keep the home, raise the children, supervise slaves, run the house, and then finally, after doing all of that, to serve and obey their husbands.  

And then when after doing all of those things, when men were present, they were supposed to be silent.  

So then the Hetaera as I've mentioned they were supposed to have conversations with men during the festivals. 

Their purpose was to entertain the men, and they were allowed to be outside of the home, they were allowed to be out in public, and along with prostitution that type of thing, and being skilled in conversation, they were involved in music, arts, that type of thing, and a lot of times, they were mid-wives, which I think is very exciting.  

So even though they weren't able to marry, and in that had a lower status than wives, they were the most highly educated women in ancient Greece. 

They couldn’t vote, they couldn't own land, but they had the highest education, and that's fascinating to me, as someone with a doctorate, I think would I want to be a wife? 

What would I want to be?  

So ownership, this topic of ownership, women in ancient Greece was not viewed as human in the same way that men were viewed. 

They were viewed as property. 

In childhood they were owned by their fathers, who picked their husband, and then paid him a dowry, and in this he truly did give her away. 

While we give women away symbolically, she was literally given away in Ancient Greece, and so upon marriage, women became the property of their husband. 

It was a business transaction of this property from this man's hand, to this ones' hands.  

And so where marriage wasn't an option for Hetaera, being single wasn't an option for citizens.  

And when we talk about education, most women did not receive formal education, now the Hetaera were trained in things like music like we were talking about in conversation, but the primary form of education was received by women on how to run the home, and this was passed from mothers to daughters, and any other knowledge that a wife would have, was passed from husbands to brothers.  

So, I give you this part of the presentation, if I were you I'd be sitting there going oh man, what was it like to be a woman back then, and thank God I'm here today.  

But I am going to pass it on to my colleague who is going to hopefully as excited, as I was when I saw this part of her presentation. 

So thank you.

>> Professor Yousaf:
Thank you.  

All right you heard my colleague talk about the roles of wives and the roles as prostitution. 

Prostitutes and roles as concubines, so today I will start with a little bit positive role.  

When you talk about ancient Greece it means that we are talking about a history of 6000 years.  

So the role of women in 6000 years we divided into two parts, like pre-classic, if the first four stages were the pre-classic era, and the last two are the classic era. 

The pre-classic era was hard to study because there was not much information available. 

To study that period, one has to rely upon archeology or the oral traditions or maybe just the [unclear dialogue] of that period.  

But when we talk about the classical age, it is a lot of evidence for that period available you know. 

And even the classic Greeks were able writers; they were able poets, and even the historians.  

So it seems that the role of women have changed radically from pre-classical age to the classical age, there. 

But the family life was very much alike. 

The family life then and today is similar and at the same time very different.  

Monogamy prevailed. 

It means that men were supposed to marry one wife, and wives were supposed to have one husband. 

At the same time, heterosexuality was also a norm. 

Men would only marry women and women would only marry men.  

Not as we see today in our society. 

Parents would have larger families, and as the average of men and women were really low like women was 35 -40 and men were like 40-45, so there was a possibility that children would lose either one or both parents before they grew up. 

So if they lose their parents, that means that they will be apart of the family of their older siblings, or become a part of the family of their slaves.  

So, it was a very common practice in those days. 

Since the ancient times, the role of the women, has be differentiated by class, but it is very traditional the very traditional role with is played by the women is to care for the family and remain submissive to her husband, or whoever is the head of the household. 

Women were very much deprived from much of the freedom to speak, and even inherit, but that was not the case in Sparta. 

The Spartan women have much more freedom than the other society. 

Even if they had the right, they were still very much secondary to their men. 

Now, just for your information, I will show you the map of ancient Greece. 

If you will look at the map here, this is Athens, and this is Sparta, which is not very far, it maybe hundred miles apart, but if you go back to the Spartan they give much more freedom, much more liberty to their women, than the Athens. 

These women, they learned to read and write, as well as they also disciplined in athletics and war like skills.  

The Spartan women were skilled in sports like discus and race or whatever sports were practiced at that particular time.  

These Spartan women, they also had the legal rights. 

They could own property, and they could inherit land. It was in the Spartan law that if a girl, if a woman had only one brother, she would definitely inherit 50% of her brother's inheritance, heritage there ok? 

And if their husbands were gone for a long time, because they were well-known soldiers, and Sparta had a lot of wars at that time, so if a husbands gone for long time, the Spartan women were allowed to have other husbands for themselves. 

It is also interesting to see that these Spartan women were trained to protect their land from the intruders. 

They could overtake and guard their property, you know, until the men returned.  

And they were also trained in plantation and had many rights around themselves at that particular time.  

I mean, of course, you know we talk about the different roles that these women were playing, but I mean, they had a lot of rights, they were freedom, but all these Spartan women were seen as a curse to mankind, and a plague worse than fire by many play writers.  

The freedom of the roles that they were given, at that time, you know it was not seen in any other elsewhere in the ancient world.  

They were free, but not as free as the Modern women of today, or even other times, you know, but certainly they enjoyed their social status, and they enjoyed the freedom of speech. 

So what kind of social roles were played here? 

So this is I've got a few that I am going to talk about you know. 

Of course, as wives, they had the freedom to participate in religious and festivious activities, but as wives their primary role was to stay submissive and stay indoors and raise their family. 

And take care of the children.  

But a little, the second role which gives them a little bit of freedom was the role of courtesan. 

The role of the courtesan was the women who were educated but they had no right to be a wife. 

They came from the poor, kind of class, but they certainly had no right, they were well-educated, well-skilled women, who helped men to have the good political know-how but they couldn't participate in voting there. 

Concubines were kind of the cohabiters you know. 

They were unofficial wives of the civilized men, the wealthy men you know. 

They could help them have children, if their wives were unable to have some. 

Prostitutes you know if very clear, you know, they were just to entertain and please men, wives were not allowed to go into the social gatherings. 

If males would hold some kind of gatherings. a feast you know, wives were kept indoors, whereas all these women were there to entertain and make them happy there.  

So, the roles of courtesans, they range from being the dancers to the very cultivated and enlightened companions of these powerful citizens. 

Aspasia, you know I just wanted to talk about Aspasia, who is a very well educated and very well influenced in the course of politics. 

Pericles, I mean Aspasia was Pericles's courtesan, you know, and he had a, Pericles is a very well leader of a popular party, and also great Athenian statesman, he had a great respect for Aspasia as a philosopher and as a politician. 

Socrates also came in fact he came to see her and brought his friends, and disciples along, who brought their wives, so that they can learn from Aspasia, so it means that she was a well-known philosopher, and a very well-known politician there. 

The other positive roles that these women played were the role of the priestesses. 

Many women feminists and many other historians [unclear dialogue] that women were very kind of excluded at that time, but Joan Connelly in her book, she talks about, you know the books' title is ‘Portrait of a Priestess, Women and Rituals in Ancient Greece’, she talks about that no, she presents some artifacts, the photographs of the artifacts and also the written text to challenge that. 

She says that no, women were not oppressed, and women were not secluded as the ancient feminists, as the Victorian feminists scholars are suggesting. 

Ok? The role of the women in ancient Greece was also studied by reviewing the book as the women are portrayed in art. [00:17:16.00]

Ordinary women was portrayed in art as Goddesses and there are more mythological creatures there, ok? 

So it is interesting to learn that all the mythology creatures that they are talking about such as like Cyrene, and Sphinx, Gargoons, [unclear dialogue] and Camera. 

These are the mythological fixtures which are like half animal half human face, you know, and the half human face is the face of a woman. 

It's not a face of a man the majority of the time; it is the face of a woman. 

So, all these ancient women when they took the course of priesthood, there were different way. 

There were variety of ways how they would become, or how to get to the priesthood, but most commonly known were the four paths to the priesthood.  

So that was inheritance, allotment appointment, election appointment, or even the purchase.  

So election, which we are all kind of aware of, has spread from the civic to the religious affairs in the first half of the fifth century BC.  

And it was used for more important priesthood.  

Some of the bets were combined, like allotment and appointment you know, so if you are elected, then sometimes you had to pay for that.  

So, purchase was usually for the long-time priesthoods there. 

In the Archaic period, which is like in the Hellenistic period, a priestess needed, had good birth, and also financial resources.  

In the area of this priesthood, women were kind of equals of men, if not greater than men.  

And they had a rightful share in the services of God.  

Women priestesses were very much involved in officiating the rituals for goddesses. 

For example, each year in Athens a new sacred palace was presented to Athena and this garment this special garment was woven by the ladies and even the presentation was made by these ladies.  

So it means that women of course they had a positive role there.  

So, if we look at these priestesses there were some very prominent priestesses of that time.  

If you look at the priestess of Athena, [unclear dialogue] of Athens and priestess of [unclear dialogue] so there are the priestesses you know, which were very much enwalled in the services for goddesses there.  

So how do we know that they were there? 

Their statues are available in these centuries.  

And painting of the goddess usually saw them holding libation bowls to receive the liquid offerings.  

And in the processions, women priests carried the holy items, which is like a very significant role that these priestesses were playing at that time.  

And a lot of times, the pictures are shown in which they are praying with their raised arms, and their palms facing upwards so that is the way of praising or praying at that time.  

All these priestesses they received some kind of financial benefits.  

And legal benefits. 

And they, on top of everything, they had the social prestige. 

They might have the freedom from taxation, but certainly they had the right to own property and they also had the priority to access the [unclear dialogue] oracle at that time.  

Some could affix their seals on the documents, which is like authority, which is like affixing your seal is your authority. 

So they had that authority at that time, and they were also they were given the highest civic honor, which means that after their death, the women were not buried properly you know, but these priestesses after their death, they were given this highest civic honor and which is like a great honor for many priestesses there.  

Along with the role of the priestess, there was another important role that these ancient Greek women played and that was the role of politics.  

These classical Greek women, they had no right to vote, you heard Crystal say that they had no right to vote, and they did not have much direct envolvement in the politics. 

Though the courtesans you know, like are special, like I mentioned earlier you know, they were very well known politicians there, and they knew how to influence the men's political life, and even the masculine subjects there.  

During the times before or just after the Trojan war, which was about 1200 BC, women were involved in politics there.  

But they had very little to do with the state affairs, but only the Oracle of Delphi was the one who was often consulted in the state matters.  

And she was the one who could advise the politicians only. 

This is very interesting to know that you know early in the history of Greece, before 1250 BC women were allowed to vote. 

And there was a time when they had to decide who should be the Patron Deity of Athens at that time, so there were two candidates, one was Athena, and the other was [unclear dialogue]. 

So all women, they supported Athena, and all men, they supported the {unclear dialogue].  

So all the women that were for Athena, and all men, they were for [unclear dialogue]. 

So since there was one more woman than men, so Athena won.  

So after that men got so offended they took their right, they stripped them of their right to vote, till the time, the modern ages, so after that women, they were able to vote before, but after that incident, no, they took their right away from them.  

All these women, all the ancient Greek women, they were also famous or well-known queens.  

There is a time they say that were these queens rulers also?

 But they don't know, but certainly at the time of Trojan war, there are some, there were some questions that if these Greek queens were the rulers, these amazon queens actually were the rulers, but not strictly the Greek women, they were not necessarily the Greek, but they were the queens but the [unclear dialogue] queens, if we look at these queens, Crystal can you pronounce it for me? Penelope, Jocasta, and Clytemnestra. 

These were the very famous queens of that time. 

And then there's another incident that we can talk about. [Unclear dialogue] instructed Odysseus that to clasp her mother when he begs the Phoenicians to help him, so that incident also kind of predict or suggests that yes she was the ruler of that time there. 

Then if you go to the historical queens here, then it will be very important to talk about this the Dido of Carthage, which is also like the Artemishere the first, and who was the queen of Heligonarses period there.  

So, of course, you know, this classical or Greek is full of all the philosophers, when we talk about Socrates, when we talk of Plato, these are the well-known philosophers of the time.  

And in his own code, Plato wrote, that in the states of Crete, and Sparta, there were not only men, but also women who were proud for their intellectual culture.  

So it means that there were quite a few of them. 

And a handful of women, who were very kind of famous in the philosophy there.  

So, philosophy, which was very much a predominately a male profession, they were not involved. 

Because their primary role was to stay indoors, raise their family, and take care of the household.  

But, there was some significant minority of the women who actually contributed in the search of wisdom in the pre-classic, and even the classic age there.  

They received, you heard Crystal say that they received their basic education from mothers, and from their you know, were certainly these women, who searched for wisdom, they were actually given a chance to enter this philosophy field.  

So, while they were deprived to enter the philosophy field, because for that, the practice was that they will discuss theories in groups, and women were not allowed to mingle if they are kind of the wives and come from a good class there, but a handful of women were given the freedom to enter the field of philosophy. 

And those women who were given the chance to enter the field of philosophy, they did great. 

They really did great.  

Pythagoras is known as a feminist philosopher. 

He started his own school, which is called the Pythagorean school, and there were many men, Pythagoras was a well-respected man of that time, and many men they brought their wives and gave his kind of in charge of, they gave them in his charge, so that they can learn off his doctrine.  

And this Pythagorean society gives more freedom, more liberty to the women. 

So his wife Theano, you know, after his death, it was very unfortunate that he died in the fire in their house, so after his death, his wife, Theano and their three daughters who were very well educated, they became kind of very much involved. 

Theano became the director of the Pythagorean school, and their three daughters who were very well educated they helped their mother to run the society, the school there. 

So this is a picture of Theano, so she was a very famous woman you know, by the Pythagoreans, because she was his wife. 

And she wrote on the numbers theory, and she also explained it as a principle to create order that helped to distinguish one thing from another. 

She also talks about the immortality of souls, and the transmigration of souls, and verifies that Pythagoreans believed in the divine justice.  

That after life, the transfiguration happens you know, after your death, the souls leaves your body, and then it enters another body, which is not necessarily a human body.  

So that's what the Pythagoreans believed in.  

They also believed that in a harmonious universe everything has a specific role, and place, and functions according to some laws, according to the laws of physics, laws of logic, and also morality, or religion. 

So Theano she also wrote about the ethics that women should adapt in everyday life. 

Another well-known philosopher of that time is Arête of Cyrene.  

Arête of Cyrene is the head of the Cyrene school. 

She grew up to believe that [unclear dialogue] roles.  

Which is like very much reflected in her philosophy. 

She wrote, "I dream of old where there is no master or slave". 

So she believes more in equality. 

So, she was given another highest honor, in that society that epitaph of her tomb inscribed the Splendor of Greece, with the Beauty of Helen, the [unclear dialogue] the Soul of Socrates, and tongue of Palmer.  

Such an inscription is like a honor, a great honor for women of that time. 

So just to conclude my presentation, I will say that in ancient Greece, women's primary role was to take care of the family, give her husband, she was raised by a father, she was to be disciplined, and very submissive, obedient women, you know, before marriage, she was supposed to be obedient to the father, and once she is given in marriage, she is submissive to her husband.  

She stayed indoors and carried out the daily household chores, and nurtured the children. 

As wives, they were to participate in religious and festive activities, but then they played another role, which gave them some freedom, the role of courtesans, the role of concubines, and the prostitutes. 

It give them some freedom.  

But the roles they played as priestesses, politics, and philosophers, not only gave them the freedom, but also brought them the honor. 

No matter what role they played at that time, it certainly brought them satisfaction and joy as the joy and satisfaction we get by playing the roles of today's life.  

Thank you. 

[Applause]

>> Dr. Wahby:
Thank you both for a nice presentation, any questions?  

I have a couple if you don't have.  

If you have, I'll give you the, let me ask a question, for each of our distinguished speakers and then I'll give you the chance.  

In your studies and research, did you find any back door or front gate where women could move from the obscurity, or being neglected or being set aside to being a goddess, which is the highest thing?  

Or Being a ruler or being a woman in power?  

Is there any back door that for example, if she is the relative of one big shot here, he would sneak her into there, a

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yes, you know, when I was talking about the priestesses you know, inheritance, when they became inher, they inherit those from the family.  And if they have resources, they could buy those powers also.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
So they can?

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yes, they can.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
So, would you consider this a back door, or a front gate? 

>> Professor Yousaf:
I think it's a front gate. It's not a back door, no. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
They do in the light? 

>> Professor Yousaf:
I think it's the front gate.  Yes, 

>> Dr. Wahby:
For you, you 

>> Dr. Lane:
Well, I was just going to say, you know, look, thinking about the Hetaera, you know, the prostitutes, and how even though in a sense, they were of a lower class, they were the most educated, and as a function of not being free-born, they were able to be educated. 

And were able to have conversations with men, and in that i wonder if they influenced men through their ability to have conversations and in that way influence society around them.  

And I think that would be more like a back door, most definitely.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Now, talking about this profession, if it is profession, if the world were to read about women doing this for spying and for having influence for some leaders, and the wars and politics.  

>> Dr. Lane:
Oh!  Oh wow!  

>> Dr. Wahby:
DId they say anything about having influence into making decisions this way. 

>> Dr. Lane:
I didn't but I could definitely see it.  Absolutely. 

>> Professor Yousaf:
You know, when I was studying and I was reading all this, prostitution was legal profession at that time, it was a taxable profession.

>> Dr. Wahby:
Oh really?

>> Professor Yousaf:
So, it was not for spying, it was their way, because they belonged to the, they were the children of slaves, and at that time, you know, women were really looked down upon. 

If families, if they have daughters, they were not happy to have daughters, they wanted boys, so sometimes the families would abandon their daughters, so when they get abandoned of course, they were raised by slaves, and then they will use them for this prostitution.  So I don't think so that it was used for spying, it was just like a way of making money.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Question for both of you. 

You mentioned the word "educated". 

Did you read anything about what system of education did they have to be to which school, to sit with Aristotle, or what type of education would you say to say uneducated? 

>> Professor Yousaf:
I think there was no formal education there you know, when I was talking about the women of Sparta, they were raised, they got educated from their mothers, and then by their husbands, and their other male members, and then we talk about Pythagorean society, the was the all these intellectuals, and they started their own schools, and all these wealthy peoples that brought their wives into them so that they could learn about their doctrines, I think that there were no formal schools, but all such schools which they taught them philosophies and all other doctrine there. 

>> Dr. Lane:
There was something that I wondered. 

Where did the Hetaera get their education? 

That was something that I couldn't find. 

And I don't know if I wasn't searching correctly, but I want to know, what was the system that they went through to get their education and what did it entail? 

I mean, because we know that wives were taught how to run a home, but what you know, was it math, was it English, I was going to say English, but what exactly was it that they learned.  So, 

>> Dr. Wahby:
So I guess, become educated?

>> Dr. Lane:
So yeah> 

>> Dr. Wahby:
We hear about Socrates and Plato and the way they taught, they have the disciples with them, living day by day, seeing what the master or teacher 'lived" and speak and they learn from his silence even, do we have any similar with women, do we have philosopher like you said, 

>> Professor Yousaf:
Arête of Cyrene.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Do they have students also, or disciples?

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yes,, yeah, like the Pythagorean school like his wife, Theano when she started, so she was the [unclear dialogue] she had a lot of women students in that school, so she was like the teacher. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Do you consider her like having a step ahead of other women, because she was the wife of [unclear dialogue] so she got some privileges?

>> Professor Yousaf:
Privileges? Yeah of course this is like important and even in today's society, if you are born in a privilege class, then you are given more privileges as compared to others, those who are less fortunate.

>> Dr. Wahby:
What is the effect of the children? 

Do they groom them for the same path, or as a family, or she forgets about her role as a family?

>> Professor Yousaf:
I don't think so, because you know their primary role was to be a wife and a mother.  

So how can you forget a primary role? 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Ok.

>> Professor Yousaf:
So that was like varied roles, but the specific role was to be a wife and a mother, so they never forgot. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Ok. Great. Any other questions.  Yes, 

>> 
First of all I can't imagine surviving that era, as a wife and mother, what, did you see any information about consequences for the wives who didn't perform as expected. You know, I as a mother, and I have a son, I wanted to you know make every opportunity available to him, and I think that that's one of the things that we are all guilty of that. 

We want that for all of our children, so I would probably be in trouble all the time, I am just curious what my consequences would be. 

>> Dr. Lane:
That’s a good question.  

>> Professor Yousaf:
You know, it was interesting when I was researching, and was studying you know, so I did not come up with any abusing at that time, you know, of course maybe they didn't document it, whatever was the reason, I didn't come across, but meals, if the men were unable to, we talked about concubines, and we've talked about courtesans, and those were the women who actually entertained me, and concubines were like the cohabiters, that if they were unable to have children from the wives, so they can bring unofficial wife then they can stand up, they can start a family with, because the main idea was to have children; have larger families. 

So, I didn't see any kind of abuse, or nothing like that. 

>> Dr. Lane;
I didn't see anything either, but I would agree that the main consequence is not being the only woman in the house.  

You know, not being that main person there, and I am sure there, and I am wondering if it was because whatever the punishment was, was so normalized that it wasn't even seen as something to write about. I don't know, but 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Thanks.  Any other questions, yes.

>> Dean Lanham:
I was just following up on what you are talking about with the prostitutes and their education. 

It seems to me that perhaps, I don't know, I am just surmising that there might have been a route for education, but the presence of being able to be with educated people, constantly, and in groups would lead to the education and make them more able to speak of politics and know what's going on in the community, rather than if you were spending time just at home, or tending the home, or tending the children, you are spending your time, an important time with children, etc, but your children aren't speaking to you about the politics of the country or the nation's state, or whatever, and so I think it goes back to sort of like this geisha role that we've seen in Japan and elsewhere that it was just being at the table, and being nearby and sitting there you will get to know what the themes are of the day, because you know, I think today, well, at least here in the US we think of prostitution as sort of a two people going off to a quiet place, you know, where I think in that society, thought it might be that it wasn't so, that it might be taking meals, it would be going to events where there would be lots of people, for from whom they could learn, and then be elevated to the next conversation, I suppose, but

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yeah, and in that time, you know, when all these men, they held a big feast, the wives were not supposed to go. 

They were not allowed to go but all these feasts were well entertained by these women, so I agree, you know, that they got to learn from them also. 

>> Dr. Lane:
Absolutely.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Well, I noticed that you are writing a lot; I noticed that you are writing; now you didn't expect me to ask you a question. 

If I asked you what question came to your mind, while these presenters were talking, anything that you said, "ah, what's that?"

>> 
Well, actually I have a research paper on women's roles in Ancient Greece. 

I just have a question, so you said women in Sparta, if there is one brother, she inherits half of the land, 

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yes, half of the heritage, whatever, not necessarily the land, whatever the household things are, they will be divided between brother and the sister.  

>> Student:
So, if there are no sons, would she get the land 100%?

>> Professor Yousaf:
She will get the land 100%.  

>> Student:
Not her husband?  

>> Professor Yousaf:
Not her husband.  

>> Student:
Yeah, I was a little curious about that.  

So how would the husband feel about her inheriting land? 

>> Dr. Lane:
Oh, that is a good question!

>> Professor Yousaf:
Interesting! Yeah, 

>> Student:
What is there were two brothers? 

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yeah, so then they will get 50/50 and she is deprived.  
>> Dr. Lane:
That is a great question.  

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yeah, that is a good question, you know.

>> Dr. Wahby:
A wonderful answer, I don't know.  

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yeah, no, I think that male, because it was a male that, and still we are still living in a very male-dominated society you know, so every man is not very kind to those women who are more powerful there, so I guess it was the same that we see in today's society. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Now, when you say male dominated society, when they brought it for a goddess, the women won, and that is 

>> Professor Yousaf:
That is why they stripped them of the right 

>> Dr. Wahby:
They accepted that rule; they didn't overturn it.  

>> Professor Yousaf:
No, 

>> Dr. Wahby:
But they overturned the right of women voting,

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yeah, till the modern age. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
So they accepted that vote, ok.  But they

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yeah, because they were raised to be submissive.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Yeah, ok.  Another quick question from here.  

>> Lashonna:
Hi, I'm Lashonna. I had a question about the role of women after they became citizens, and especially in Athens, because I know they didn't gain citizenship until after Pericles, did that guarantee them the right to vote, and if so, did they gain any political power?  

>> Professor Yousaf:
After that you know, the women of Sparta were the first group to get the reins, and then after that you know, there were so many wars, in Athens, and Sparta, and once Athens surrendered and became a part of Sparta, that is the time when the Athenian women got some rights. 

They got some freedom, there ok? 

And yes, they didn't get to vote, but they had a little bit of contribution in their political ways.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Ok. Another Question here. 

>> Student:
Was there ever any just kind of women that just kind of wanted to rise up a little bit, meaning they didn't like their position and was there any kind of struggle, or anything like that? 

>> Dr. Lane;
I am sure there were. 

I think that's a natural tendency in all humans, you know, to kind of fight back when they feel oppressed. 

What I wonder though is, what it was that would cause a woman to realize that her situation could get better.  

I didn't see anything directly in the research that I did, about rising up, but I am sure they wanted to at the very least.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Any other questions?  

From this side, or this side?  

Now, the last question to you is to ask you what questions you didn't find answer to, while you were doing your research, but before that I will ask you a question about odysseys.  

I gather these paintings are come from a later date?  

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yes, 

>>  DR. Wahby:
They don't have paintings at that time. 

>> Professor Yousaf:
No, because the pre-classical time there was no data available. 

Because most of the time there was not much education, people were not, you could only go to archeology, or the [unclear dialogue] those are the pictures, these are the things that are from the classical era and onward. 

Yes, so, of course,

>> Dr. Wahby:
You mean classical ancient Greece, or classical Europe? 

>> Professor Yousaf:
Classical Ancient Greece. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Oh, so we have some from that time?

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yes, yes, there are.  

Because they were historians, they were able writers, and poets, and you know, so they could tell them. 

And even when you look at the statements that we talked about, the quotes from Aristotle you know, so it means that there were some documentation of that time.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Now, my question regarding the dresses. 

They have big pieces of cloth, and that means they have industry to do these, and industry to tailor them or cut them, because I mean it is not like a piece of [unclear dialogue] 3 yards from this piece, it is like a big, 

>> Professor Yousaf:
So they were not the drapes, but those were kind of the stage clothes that they wore. That’s what you mean?

>> Dr. Wahby:
Yeah, did you read anything about how did they have all this amount of textile, or dying, or it's a big industry.  

It's not like small piece of cloth, 

>> Professor Yousaf:
Um Hmm. 

>>  Attendee:
That could be trade.  

>> Professor Yousaf:
That could be the trade, yes, 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Trading, ok. Very good. 

>> Professor Yousaf:
That could be the trade. 

>>  Dr. Wahby:
SO, what are, we have two minutes, to answer this, one minute for you, one minute for her.  

What one or two questions that while you were researching, you find no answer, but you keep it for the future.  

Any other questions

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yeah, while I was preparing, the only question that I had you know, I was trying to put myself in that age, you know, and if I am a wife, how can I tolerate my husband to have other women and still be a normal human being, you know, mu husband is there, you know, so I was imagining, I was putting myself in those shoes, and I said, it is so hard, you had to have a big heart, to have other women entertain your husband, while you are raising your children, and being there, so that was my only concern. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Very good. 

>> Dr. Lane:
Well, I had two, my first was, I wondered if they were relieved that there was someone who came in, because and I know that this was further down the line, but in Henry VIII's time, if women couldn't give any children, or the gender that they wanted, they were put to death. 

So I wondered if there was a relief that they didn't have to have these children. But my other question was, what was the relationship of fathers, with their children?  

And that certainly wasn't addressed in what I was looking at, and you know, I wanted to know, was there a relationship, were fathers, was fatherhood prevalent? 

You know, was it something that was seen as important?  So, 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Are you planning to insert, or interject some of this study that you did, in your classroom, somehow,?  

>> Dr. Lane:
Absolutely.  

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yes, I already did.  

Ask my students, I already did, I talk about it, this is the time unfortunately that we are living in, this time, you know, we have so many rights. Yes. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Very good. 

Would you please join me in thanking them for a wonderful presentation? 

[Applause]

You have already received your certificates? 

>> Professor Yousaf:
Yes, I have already received mine. 

>> Dr. Lanham:
But we would like to present you with a commemorative certificate for participating with us, 

>> Dr. Lane;
Well, thank you. 

I really appreciate that.  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Excellent. 

>> Professor Yousaf:
Thank you for giving us this opportunity to be a part of this symposium.

>> Dr. Wahby:
Thank you.  Please check your programs, and catch up whatever you have, until Wednesday.